Fox News officially called it “The Great Red vs. Blue State Debate’. But the standoff quickly turned into a full-blown political feud between Gavin Newsom, the Democratic governor of California who is not running for president. and Ron DeSandis, the Republican governor of Florida who is, and is not gaining ground on, former President Donald Trump in the polls.
The event took place in Alpharetta, Georgia, was broadcast by Fox News and moderated by Sean Hannity. Our partners at PolitiFact reviewed the extensive statements from the two state officials. You can read it full coverage here.
Newsom has enjoyed mocking DeSantis on social media and on Fox News and, earlier this year, challenged DeSantis to a debate — arguing that the red-state policies DeSantis has embraced are stripping Americans of their freedoms. DeSantis counters that he is the strongest defender of liberty and has criticized California as “the petri dish for American leftism” and argues that “everything [President Joe] Biden is doing it, they would accelerate.”
True to the event’s billing, the nation’s culture wars were front and center on the discussion stage. DeSantis portrayed California as a failed state with rampant crime and homelessness, led by an “elite” politician too liberal for the rest of the country. “They have failed because of his leftist ideology,” DeSantis said.
Newsom fired back, playing up California’s huge economy and describing his state as a state without peer. He expressed his commitment to the re-election of Biden. He also called out DeSantis on his Covid-19 policies, saying more Floridians have died from the coronavirus because of his looser public health rules: “Tens of thousands of people have died and for what, Ron?”
Abortion was a clear flashpoint. Newsom defended California’s strong anti-abortion protections and attacked DeSantis, claiming he “criminalizes” women and doctors. He also suggested that if DeSantis became president, he would further roll back abortion rights nationwide. Newsom, asked by Hannity if he would sign a law banning abortions later in pregnancy, argued that such cases are extremely rare.
“I trust the mother and her doctor to make that decision,” he said.
The two also clashed over book bans, parental rights and policies regarding the LGBTQ+ community.
DeSantis criticized Newsom for California’s growing homelessness, which he said has contributed to the “destruction of the quality of life” in the state.
Newsom pointed out that the crisis has been brewing for decades. He noted, however, that under his leadership, billions of dollars of taxpayer money have been directed toward addressing homelessness. He also boasted about the state’s investments in mental health and addiction programs.
“The difference is, I’m the first governor in California history to do it head-on,” Newsom said, claiming his policies have moved 68,000 people off the streets and into shelters or housing.
Here are the health-related claims that PolitiFact reviewed:
Covid-19 Lockdown
Newsom borrowed a page from Trump’s playbook by misrepresenting DeSantis as the leader of the lockdown. Newsom’s comments focused on DeSantis’ actions in the early weeks of the pandemic, when nearly all governors were operating without a break. Newsom omits that DeSantis reopened earlier than most governors in the spring of 2020.
“You passed an emergency declaration before the state of California did,” Newsom said. “You closed your beaches, bars, restaurants. It is a fact.”
Many local governments closed beaches for a limited time, but DeSantis did not close them statewide.
DeSantis issued an executive order on March 17, 2020, ordering Florida residents to “limit their gatherings” at beaches to no more than 10 people and to “support beach closures at the discretion of local authorities.”
He also ordered beaches in Broward and Palm Beach counties closed for 11 days, following recommendations from local officials and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The governor’s refusal to close most beaches to spring break crowds has drawn intense criticism and appeals.
Newsom was on firmer ground in his claim to close the bars. DeSantis ordered all bars and nightclubs to close for 30 days. The restaurants were not closed. His March 17 order said restaurants were limited to 50 percent of customer capacity and had to separate seats by 6 feet.
Governors nationwide issued multiple orders in March 2020 in response to the pandemic. DeSantis issued an order on March 1 to establish a coronavirus response protocol and direct a public health emergency. On March 4, Newsom declared a state of emergency to help California prepare for the pandemic.
Florida’s Abortion Limits and the DeSantis Abortion Survivor’s Story
As Hannity pressed Newsom on whether he supported abortion restrictions, Newsom attacked Florida’s abortion laws.
“He signed a bill that bans all exemptions for rape and incest,” Newsom said of DeSantis. “And then he said he didn’t go far enough and decided to sign a six-week ban … that criminalizes women and criminalizes doctors.”
DeSantis signed legislation in 2022 that banned abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. It makes no exceptions for cases of incest, rape or human trafficking, but includes an exception for the life of the mother.
DeSantis signed a tougher bill in April that bans abortions after six weeks of pregnancy. Whether the law goes into effect depends on how the Florida Supreme Court rules in a lawsuit challenging the current 15-week ban. The 2023 law contains exceptions, including to save the life of a pregnant woman or in cases of fatal fetal abnormalities. Abortions for pregnancies involving rape, incest or human trafficking will be allowed up to 15 weeks of pregnancy if a woman has documentation such as a restraining order, police report or medical record.
The law punishes doctors, but whether it also criminalizes women is less clear, so we’ve rated a similar claim as half-true. The law says anyone who “actively participates in” an abortion commits a third-degree felony, which opens the door for prosecutors to charge women, but we don’t yet know if they will or how courts will respond to such charges. DeSantis also said he doesn’t want women prosecuted, only doctors.
In defending the law, DeSantis repeated an anecdote from the first GOP presidential debate about a Floridian named Penny Hopper. Miriam “Penny” Hopper is a real person and anti-abortion activist. Some of the details surrounding her birth story have been called into question.
Hopper said she survived an attempted abortion in Florida in 1955. Her claim has been floated by anti-abortion groups and used to support what abortion opponents call “born alive” bills in state legislatures, which aim to protecting babies who survive abortions, even though there are federal laws to that effect.
In interviews, Hopper said she was born at about 23 weeks gestation after her mother went to a hospital in Wauchula, Florida, while hemorrhaging. Hopper said the doctor induced labor and she was born at 1 pound, 11 ounces, and that the doctor told the staff to throw her away “dead or alive.” She said her grandmother found her the next day on the hospital porch in a bed. Then, Hopper said, a nurse offered to take her to a larger hospital that was about 40 miles away.
That a baby born at 23 weeks could survive a night without medical attention in 1955 is medically doubtful, experts said. From the 1950s to the 1980s, “neonatal death was virtually assured” for infants born before 24 weeks’ gestation, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists states on its website.
The Washington Post also reported that contemporary newspaper accounts offered a different scenario at the hospital and said staff spent days trying to keep her alive before arranging for a police escort to take her to another hospital.
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